By Allan Sko

I’ll Have What She’s Having

This is less an article and more a story; an informative and celebratory tale about the debut live show of long-running and much-loved podcast, Evolving Love, helmed by irrepressible Canberra power couple Abbey Mackay and Liam Budge.

But in its telling, it’s about much more than that.

Best to start at the beginning, of course, but this tale has many of those. So, let’s go with the Evolving Love moniker itself.

“Liam actually helped me with the name!” Abbey enthuses. “It just felt so right. It is evolving love, and we have an evolving relationship. We started as a monogamous couple and, through much communication, openness and sharing, we’ve developed this beautiful, involving and evolving connection.

“So the name just fit; it feels right.”

I met with Abbey on a bright ‘n’ chilly Canberra winter’s day, initially in the snug of the NFSA’s café—mere feet from the live podcast’s eventual home—before braving the cold for the betterment of audio recording. A good thing, too; we don’t want to miss a word.

You can easily distinguish Abbey in a crowd; a shimmering cascade of natural silver hair flows to her waist, and she has the warm smile and sparkling sapphire eyes that speak of a contented soul, one who is gleefully figuring out life, keen to share all that has been gained. And share she does.

But before that, let’s ensure we’re all up to speed, shall we?

What is Ethical Non-Monogamy?

Ethical Non-Monogamy, or ENM, has been around in some form since humans were first invented. But only in the past few years has grown—evolved, if you will—into an accepted way of being.

Now, you may be familiar with ENM, an avid practitioner, on the cusp of trying, or have no idea what it’s about. As the name suggests, ENM is the practice of being romantically involved with multiple people who are all aware of and agree with each other. Helping to inform, guide, and hold a safe space for discussion of all things ENM is Abbey Mackay.

“Evolving Love Project has been a beautiful unfolding space for storytelling and sharing non-monogamous perspectives,” Abbey explains. “It started very small, in 2021, with a closed Instagram account where women could share their thoughts and experiences. Word of mouth saw the member base grow.”

And grow it did; Abbey’s personal passion had tapped into something resonant.

“I soon realised there was a community connecting with my sharing,“ Abbey reveals. “I started writing longer-form articles on Substack and shortly after began hosting conversation evenings. Since then, Liam and I began the podcast.

“It’s been a gradual opening up.”

Every bloom starts from seed, so I was fascinated to learn which of the two was bold enough to first plant the idea of ENM?

“We actually can’t remember!” Abbey beams. “We’re very playful and talk all the time; one day we realised we had these feelings of happiness and excitement at the thought of each other having a little bit more independence, intimately.

“We didn’t know at the time, but that feeling was compersion.”

Ahhhh, yes! Compersion. A term I only learned recently. But why have a hack like me fumble through an explanation when we have an expert on hand to guide us?

“Compersion is the sympathetic joy felt upon your partner having a connection with somebody else, where you’re not the direct cause of their happiness,” Abbey explains. “Compersion is a really important component of non-monogamy. Without it, we’re left to navigate jealousy or trip over unspoken triggers.

“This is through an ENM lens,” Abbey clarifies. “So, if my husband is to connect with another woman, instead of feeling jealousy, despair, or rejection, you step back, and allow happiness and joy.

“And for some people, they experience arousal.”

Indeed, any number of emotions may been aroused in you, dear reader: intrigue, shock, delight, disgust, hope, a nodding recognition, or shades in between. Whatever they may be, that’s ok. After all, this deviates from the roadmap for life laid before us from an early age. You know the drill: Get born, get to school, get a degree or a trade; get a job, a partner, a mortgage; have kids, raise kids, retire from job, retire from life.

ENM acknowledges this narrative but dares to offer another.

“We’re programmed to this singular understanding of what romantic love is,” Abbey explains. “‘My one and only’, ‘I choose you’, ‘You are The One’… is in countless movies and media.

“I grew up watching Disney, we hit all of the rom-coms. Anytime there’s an outside love interest, it’s through the lens of an affair or infidelity. We’re only given negative association with anything extramarital. Even just the word can cause pain or be triggering.

“That’s why I talk about compersion,” Abbey continues. “It was the first thing I started writing about because it’s so key to understanding ENM. When hearing about non monogamy for the first time, even if it’s not for you, to be able to understand compersion is such a big part of it.”

An in-depth exploration of these ideas can be enjoyed by the Evolving Love podcast, helmed by Abbey and Liam with an impressive line-up of special guests. The natural twinkle in Abbey’s eyes positively sparkle at the mere mention of Liam. There is real love there.

Bloody understandable, too. The man is a DISH. Former BMA cover boy, Liam Budge is the ultimate slashy, an erudite singer/ songwriter/theatremaker/photographer/filmmaker of a calibre that makes you look at your own life and go: “Huh… I guess I could be doing something more.”

He is also staggeringly handsome. My compersion cup overfloweth.

“We talk often; we’re big communicators,” Abbey beams. “As I’ve said, we started hosting these conversation nights. The catalyst for them—the need to do it—was having so many people reaching out to me.

“So, the writing came first,” Abbey recaps. “People connected with that and shared their own stories. I realised, in Canberra, there was need for a group that could converge for conscious conversations, whether they be ENM, curious about it, or practising polyamory for a long time.

“Then, through Substack and Instagram, I connected with people worldwide. So, we thought, we’ll start a podcast so that we can share these stories.”

The Evolution of the Evolving Love Podcast

At 44 episodes and counting, the next stage of its evolution is here with Evolving Love opening up further via a live podcast.

“We’re incredibly excited,” Abbey says. “It’s a beautiful opportunity to share the same space. We’ll answer questions and share our relationship experience and our journey.

“We feel comfortable to de-stigmatise non-monogamous relationships,” Abbey assures. “We’re in a fortunate and privileged position; with the love and acceptance of our friends and family, we feel comfortable to speak openly.

“We’re parents too, and we know people have a lot of questions about that.”

Ahhhh, yes! Children! Won’t somebody pleeeeeease think of the children? Surely rugrats rout all things ENM and plonk us purposely on the pathway of tradition once more. Not so, says Abbey.

“We believe that happy parents create the foundation for a happy family in a happy home,” she states. “We have a wonderful marriage, and our son has a joyful life.”

You may be burning with questions right now. Like, what’s wrong with monogamy?

“We don’t have anything against monogamy whatsoever!” Abbey enthuses. “Monogamy is a better fit for most people. Nonmonogamy can be wonderful, exciting, deep and meaningful; and it can be challenging, as all relationships are.

“Whether monogamy or non-monogamy, it’s just a different way of being together.

“But it is true that when you start exploring non-monogamy, it can put a magnifying glass on all aspects of your relationship,” Abbey continues. “So whether that be good or difficult, whatever’s going on, things usually tend to come to the surface.”

Further questions abound. Perhaps you’re intrigued but worried about coming along.

“It’s wonderful to learn about different ways of being,” Abbey says. “We have many people interested in what we write about, and they are monogamous. Reading or listening to the Evolving Love Project has been beneficial for their monogamous relationship by exploring the foundation skills of communication and openness.

“It’s an interesting topic. So whether or not it’s for you, you’re more than welcome to come along.”

Or you may wondering if compersion actually exists; surely jealously is more safe and comfortable and not without its merits?

“It’s normal to have fears in a relationship,” Abbey says. “Jealousy is also normal. We’re not unfeeling creatures; of course things can come up. That has been something to explore over the years.

“But we have the skill set and self-awareness to sit with an emotion and ask why it’s coming up, to investigate it and decide whether it’s a real or perceived fear.

“We haven’t had any big issues because we have been exploring at a steady pace over years,” Abbey asserts. “We’ve been non-monogamous for ten years now. We never rushed in; everything was a discussion first. We would discuss hypotheticals, slowly dipping our toes in before gradually opening up at a pace that felt right for us.”

In closing this scintillating chat and its toothsome topic, the surface of which being only lightly scuffed, Abbey leaves us with further thought-food. “A misconception around non monogamy is that people do it because something is seriously lacking in a relationship,” Abbey says. “Of course, people approach nonmonogamy for many different reasons, and that can be a valid one. But it’s not everything.

“For us, exploring ENM makes us closer as a couple because we’re able to be so real with each other. Non-monogamy bonds us to one another.”

Abbey’s sparkle makes this certain; she is speaking her truth. It may be your truth, too.

Emotions stirred and questions summoned by all this? Abbey and Liam will be there to inform and share when the Evolving Love podcast goes live at the National Film and Sound Archive on 26 July at 7:30pm. Get your tix via NFSA website